The Canon 5Dmk2
SO.. Earlier this evening I was pleased to be invited to Canon’s showroom in London for a preview of their latest offerings. While I had a look at the new 24mm f1.4 mkII lens and the Canon G10 powershot (much improved over my aging G7), the star of the evening was the new Canon 5D mk2.
First impressions are slightly underwhelming after such a build-up as the exterior design is very similar to the original version. However, putting on my best Clarkson voice, it’s what’s under the hood that matters.. (cue heavily grad-filtered shot of camera on a wet runway)
First up, upsides. The video function looks VERY good indeed. Thanks to the new improved screen on the rear, it really does look crystal clear. Never having moved to the mk3 body, LiveView is a new experience for me too. Anyone with a point and shoot camera will be surprised to find that not having to look through a viewfinder is a new experience for higher-end cameras but it’s only in recent releases that the function has been included. Handy for setting up shots from positions where you can’t get to see through the viewfinder such as over your head or mounted on a clamp/bracket. Anyway, back to the video, it is incredibly clear and sharp with no signs of fringing or digital distortion. This is one of the features that really excites me at the moment (steady on..)
Improving the burst rate from 3 to 3.9 frames per second may seem a small amount but I have to say it makes more of a difference than you would imagine. While I still maintain that 5 or 6 fps would have been perfect, 3.9 is definitely not a problem. While it’s too slow for sport, it now is a usable news camera rather than in the original version where the emphasis was more on portraits and less volatile coverage!
One of the features that I was interested to test for myself was the new uber-ISO range. Never seen on Canon before, the 25,600 ISO setting has made it’s debut on the 5dmk2. Shooting on the unfinished pre-pro models still proved impressive as very little noise was evident but I must say I was staggered to see a direct comparison with Nikon’s D3. In the test, it was clear that at 25600, the Canon retained more image detail than the Nikon. I didn’t imagine that the D3 would be nudged out of the way on ISO so quickly. While the Nikon is 12MP, the Canon holds more image detail on it’s 21MP chip, even on the pre-production unfinished model. Wowzers.
As these were all early pre-production models, I wasn’t able to take frames on my own cards to bring home and inspect. This is perfectly normal with all manufacturers at this stage so anyone wanting to throw doubts on possible problems will have to wait for the final release in November! Damn you, naysayers..
With this in mind, it’s impossible to give a full opinion on image quality aside from to say that it’s looking like it’ll shape up into a very interesting option.
Now, there are a couple of downsides to me but nothing really major. This centres around button placement. For one point, there is a button (fourth up on left, above) that is purely for quick access to the picture styles selection function. Having had a 5d for over two years now, I’ve maybe changed my “picture style” three times in that whole period. Placing a button in such an accessible spot is a wasted opportunity. My suggestion was to allow that to become a multi-function button so that the much-needed “image protect” button can finally reach the 5d series. Fingers crossed for a firmware addition..
Secondly, when shooting video currently, the camera must be in LiveView mode so the viewfinder becomes redundant. To start and stop the recording, the Set button (centre of large wheel to lower right of camera) must be pressed. From the regular camera holding position, this proves a little awkward but it may be something I could get used to. As autofocus is technically possible during video but not the best option, I’d be tempted to get a firmware option that reassigns the AF-ON button to be the start/stop function button for video use.
Both of these are minor issues that I may forget once I start using it but if they were easy to address through an update, I’d certainly be interested in the adjustments.
During the evening, the issue of a control lock was raised by some photographers but as I’ve never found this to be much of an issue, I can’t say I’m unhappy that it’s not been included in this new model.
In conclusion, I’m very interested in trying one of these out in anger when the time comes. Canon have still to address the need for a reliable fast sports camera that can rival the D3 but for everything else, I think we may have winner on our hands, people..
ADDITION 19-09-08
Following a few questions that I’ve received, I can explain that the video function looks set to be very handy but there are limitations. Aperture cannot be adjusted during filming manually but the camera will open out as wide as possible if needed during filming. It was suggested that if I used an old manual lens with an aperture ring plus a converter, it would be possible but I can’t see myself doing that really. During filming, if something happens that requires a still frame to be taken, pressing the shutter button will temporarily pause the video, take the frame then continue the video recording. The whole process takes about a second but once you finish the recording, the video file is not broken by your still capture as it remains one long file. Hope that answers some of the questions!
Thanks for the preview Leon, certainly sounds interesting. I’m pleased if Canon are topping, or even just equaling, the ISO performance of the D3/D700, but do you think the 21mp are a waste? It might be something that would sell to the unwary pro-consumer, but as a jobbing photographer will the extra file sizes and slower processing times be a burden? I can’t but thing that if Canon had gone with something like 14mp with 6fps more people would be happy.
21mp can’t be a waste in my opinion if it creates a higher quality image with greater cropping possibilities while not increasing noise or other digital issues. By changing their processor technology, it looks like Canon have managed to get the best of both worlds; lots of lovely, lovely image information with high ISO. As for file sizes, the camera has a whole heap of image choices so, if you don’t want megaframes, you can go for one of the many jpg options OR one of the two RAW options. The introduction of a sRAW option is another thing to look forward to, I think.
I asked Canon about the fps issue as I knew SOMEONE would ask..
It seems that the 3.9 fps is not a decision by them to limit or restrict the camera. It’s simply an issue of reaching the limits of what the mirror box unit can produce from such a small chassis design. In the 1d series body, they can fit more “grunt” under the hood but they found that topping out at 4fps was all they could manage from this small form body.
Hope that answers your questions!
“It seems that the 3.9 fps is not a decision by them to limit or restrict the camera. It’s simply an issue of reaching the limits of what the mirror box unit can produce from such a small chassis design.”
So why would the smaller mirror box of the 40D/50D be able to do 6.5/6.3 fps? This is not a limit of the shutter, but a limit of data rates.
To push 21 mp through the Digic 4 processor, that means its processing 82 megapixels per second or 17.6 mbits/second. Thats a lot of processing power going on there so it’s very amazing that it can even push 3.9 fps.
I dont know if I should smile or frown reading that.
I was just ready to count the 5dmk2 out and put it as a “would like” camera and one I would get in a year when they dropped in price, then you go and say the high ISO matches the D3 in theory…. I know we have to see the pictures in the flesh on our own screens but I didnt expect that from a 21MP sensor.
Well I have till december to decide but thats for the decision isses you gave me…..
Pitty the 50D can outperform the 5D in fps, but thats the price for the FF and loss of space inside the body I guess.
Nice article Leon. I’m looking forward to getting this as my first upgrade since the 20D. The thing I’m most looking forward to is a proper sized viewfinder again after too many years using a crop sensor camera
Very insightful review, if you happen to be a Canon user. That said, despite all the updates here and there, where does it actually end? Can most ‘togs actually keep up? I hear that Nikon not only have released the D700, they are now coming out with something as an upgrade to the D3. Bring back manual, that’s what I say.
We need to hook up, my liege. You have to tell me all about Cuba. You’re offer sounds tempting.
kinematic – Thanks for clearing that up. Yes, that was my mistake. It’s not purely down to the mirror but also the processor. The mirror was certainly mentioned as a factor but yes, the processor was an limiting factor.
Andy – It’s handy that there is the cooling off period of a few months! Having said that, a Canon representative mentioned that one store had 54 advance sales within 3 hours of the camera being announced! Hurrah for the guinea pigs..
James – That’ll be quite a leap. You won’t be unhappy!
Akin – That’s a fair point that a few people brought up tonight. There’ll always be someone calling for ALL of the unwanted gadgets to be removed but when you actually press them, the list of things they’d leave on normally stays quite high.
As for coffee, I say yes to that! I’m off to the Labour conference tomorrow for a week but on my return, I have foreign groats to sell you!
Well so much for you not keeping any pictures, there are a few posters on flickr with full res jpg’s from the 5dmk2 when they tried it today at various events round the world.
And from the samples I just looked at, yes the ISO is as good as you say even in jpg format. Even if, as usual the pictures taken are using the wrong camera/lens settings and misfocused to get good samples.
There were plenty of people sticking their own cards in tonight but what will that demonstrate? If it’s soft/mis-calibrated/noisy then you’ll end up with rumours spreading around of problems when we were clearly told that these were not finished models. There are versions that are closer to the final release but they have all been sent to Germany in preparation for Photokina.
oops forgot…
“So why would the smaller mirror box of the 40D/50D be able to do 6.5/6.3 fps? This is not a limit of the shutter, but a limit of data rates.”
I thought that at first, but, It could be a space issue too, as the space used by a FF sensor compared to a cropped sensor will be different and as such not allow as much space for the mirror box. But I also think they want the higher fps in the 1d range…..
Yeah, I think you nailed it there, Andy although he was very insistent that they hadn’t intentionally locked it down. They were originally going to put it out as a 4fps until a new measurement technique came out from the regulating bods which lowered the official rating to 3.9. Ooo, that must have pissed them off..
Did they give you a UK street price?
I just discovered something insane. All the UK shops seem to be selling the 5d mk2 body for £2300. That’s over £600 more than the D700 sells for! It’s closer in price to the D3!
Yeah, the retail is £2300 although I heard that some retailers are throwing some interesting deals together with it. I can’t confirm it but a friend mentioned yesterday that one shop is offering the G10 for free if you buy the 5dmk2!
As to the speed thing, I’d say that the reason the 50D can do it faster, outside of processing concerns, is because it’s a physically smaller mirror to throw around, and so less grunt is needed to do it. If the 50D has the same power behind the mirror flip, then it’ll certainly be able to do it faster.
And the processing thing is probably a factor too.
You mentioned that the aperture will open during filming. This scares me a little. Is there a way to lock the aperture to a certain size? That would be far, far more useful to me. Along with 24fps video.
Hi Hugh, I can’t offer that much help regarding your aperture lock question as, only having a moron’s amount of knowledge on all things video, I didn’t ask the types of questions that someone in the know would have pushed for!
Your comments on the mirror power requirements certainly make sense too.
Hi Leon. Sounds great in terms of image quality, as expected. I’m not too bothered about 4fps really – I often have my Mk3s set to a low speed of 4 or 5fps anyway. I like my old 5D a lot but one thing I don’t like doesn’t seem to have been sorted. It sounds like it’s no more ‘snappy’ or responsive (slow viewfinder blackout and shutter lag I think they call it?) than the original which really does feel sluggish compared to even a 20D, particularly if using it alongside a 1-series. The AF’s fine for most things but it’s a shame that couldn’t have been given a bit of a makeover too. Ah well. I’m sure it’ll be popular and a very capable camera but I’d still like a 1D type camera with no vertical grip, like Nikon did with the D700. See you soon…
Okay – no worries – maybe I’ll ask Canon about it….
The 5D was (is?) the ideal camera for the kind of thing I do at work for reference shoots. To be able to do element shoots on it too will make it so much better. Most companies our size don’t have their own HD camera, as that would be prohibitively expensive. But getting a camera like this would be a great stills camera, plus a good quality video camera for elements.
Hmm, a 5d + g10 is a sweet offer but it’s still a bloody rip off compared to prices over here where the street price is £1400! I’ll have to buy one before I head back and hide it in my socks, hopefully they’ll release it before mid November.
Frantzesco – The focus has apparently been tweaked slightly. It’s still the same focus system as the mk1 but it’s been nipped up to provide faster and more accurate focus. Trying the pre-pro out with a mk1, it was evident that there has been some improvement although not quite as much as I guess you’re probably hoping for!
Hugh – Yeah, I saw you’d contacted Nick so I’m sure he can answer your more detailed questions.
Miles – I have to say I was pretty surprised when I head it was going for $2500 compared to our £2300. Could well be worth attempting the Cannonball Run to B&H..
The aperture is locked once you start filming video but this can be any value from wide open to closed. You can still used exposure compensation though +/- 2 stops whilst filming.
Thanks for clearing that up, CC!
Sorry to harp on about it but I just saw you can get a 1d mk3 for £40 more in the UK. They have got to be kidding.
OK, I’ll shut up now.
hey boss man.
well, i got my hands on this thing at london fashion week on thursday, my first impression was rubbish ( which it is for most things in life ) but this time its justified… if you kept an eye on the canon website a week or so ago you would have seen a slither sneek preview of what we all thought was the new 5d, it looked like the top half of the ol’ 1v 1n series, shoulder buttons both sides.
when i actually got hold of the piece of plastic, i was confused from watford.
so what was this picture?
maybe the 7d??? my heart raced slightly, maybe canon have actually listened to for once.
after phoning CPS i found out that actually this picture was made up, fabricated, not real at all.
so the canon marketing machine seems to understand what photographers want!
but not the designers?? baahhh
as for the the 5d2 itself, suspect there maybe some lisencing issues with high profile sporting events and the fact that this is a HD video camera in disguise..hmmmm
maybe im wrong.?..
loose the stupid function roullete wheel on the side…actually ya know what??
…just bring out a f’ing camera that works.
angry from london
Ooooo, controversial words from the shrimp-like one.. I’m surprised that you’re so strongly against it. Knowing your love for the 5d, I thought you’d be into it. Obviously it’s not going to be a replacement for the 1dmk3 but I figured you’d be expecting the mk2 to still retain the light-weight feel of the 5d.
The video thing is definitely going to see a shakeup in the rules at events, I imagine. Interesting times, Mr. C, interesting times..
*strokes chin*
The AF on the 5D fine as long as you happen to focus most of the time using the central point, it’s more the general snappiness that I miss from the 1D when I use it. Like Mr. C I saw that thing on the Canon site and thought it might be the 5DII or even a new one altogether like a 3D or whatever – a little 1-series! But no, your fine research has shown that it was marketing bullshit. That is a shame. If my 5D gets trashed or nicked (anyone?) then it’s the only small Canon I’d replace it with but otherwise it’s not enough of an upgrade to warrant all that expense. Can’t see how Canon can slip yet another camera in to the line-up either, so not holding my breath for the small pro camera I just designed in my head…
Anyone interested its £1800 at the bt shop and dabs.com (as they are the same thing)
so £500 cheaper than all other places. No need for the NY trip……
That’s not so bad…. It’s the same price as I got my 5D for….
I’m not seeing it on either of those sites, though…?
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=58LS&SearchType=1&SearchTerms=5d&PageMode=3&SearchKey=All&SearchMode=All&NavigationKey=0
This link works for me.
Nice one! Cheers for the link, Andy.
Thanks for the link, Andy…
DABS aren’t accepting preorders, which is a bit of a bugger, and could well mean a huge glut of orders when the cameras is actually released. And, which is a real pain for someone like me who spends most of his time at an office, they won’t deliver anywhere other than a home address.
But is it worth that extra £500 to preorder it properly… (Calumet are doing a free (woo…) 4Gb CF card with it)
And the cynic in me thinks that they possibly only put it up as 1800 as that’s what the 5D started off at, and that they’re possibly going to put the price up to the list price when it comes out.
I’m >< this close to preordering one from Calumet. Rather than wait until November when Dabs will push their price up and everyone else will have sold out, and everyone who decided to go with Dabs will be fighting over the few that they have.
I put in my order on Dabs before I posted the link and will leave it to see if they keep the price as is. In which case I will be a early adopter.
If not it will be a Dec/Jan purchase as I had planned..
I think I’ll be going with the latter if I do decide to get one. No point in being a guinea pig and ironing out the problems for everyone else!
welllllll… i dont actually hate it… my anger is more for canon’s lack of earlobing,
i dont want to go to nikon, i cant afford it.
i hope that after the london meating (which i couldnt make because of the cock sucking fashion twats) *takes a deep breath and listens to my anger management casette*
that canon will take stuff onboard this time.
enuff hatred from me, im an empty husk : ((
But you’re at you’re finest when you’re venom-filled! :0
Yeah, I can understand what you’re saying as there still isn’t the camera in the Canon range that I’m waiting for (21MP, 1d range-sized body, 7fps, 25600ISO if you’re wondering..) but the 5d replacement was never going to be it so I’ll remain patient for hopefully good things in the future.
The 5dmk2 is still of interest to me though and I look forward to seeing the finished files from the production models.
PS Sorry about the fashion hell. Some great stuff on imageforum, bud..